While in High School worked summers as construction laborer. Worked with Master Carpenter and Apprentice Carpenter. Apprentice kept bumming a chew from Master. One day Master felt Redman and said it was to dry. Whipped IT out and pee'd in it before handing to Apprentice. He never bummed it again.

I had a five pack per day habit. I quit smoking in 1992. Immediately after I extinguished the last butt, I was wheeled in to the operating room, where they spent eight hours removing and repairing cancerous prts, after which I spent three weeks in the hospital receiving round the clock chemo therapy. I think all that chemo,saline solutions, drugs, etc. helped wash part of the nicotine poison from my system. I never lit up again, although I want one right now, just about as bad as I did when I was smoking five packs a day. I sometimes sit in the smoking section of a restaurant, to enjoy the second hand smoke. Hey! It's only been sixteen years.

I was right/wrong once again. Where do uou obtain this information? I tried RAI, but they had no contact us feature.

At last, a real issue we can sink our teeth into. I used to smoke 20 of those babies a day. As usual, Google has all you need to know on the subject:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Lucky+Strike+Green

Stationed at Yuma County Airport, later named Vincent AFB, Ariz,
Mt. La Guna AFS,Calif, Puntzi Mt, B.C.,Canada,Joelton AFS, Tenn,
Malmstrom AFB, Montana 28th Norad (SAGE), Stephensville, Newfoundland,
Canada. 964th AEW& C Squardron and 966th AEW& C Suadron of the 552AEW&C Wing in Sacramento, California and Orlando, Florida.

From a 50s print advertisement: "I'll Be Right Over!" . . .24 hours a day your doctor is "on duty". . .guarding health. . .protecting and prolonging life. . .plays. . .novels. . .motion pictures. . .have been written about he "man in white" and his devotion to duty. But in his daily routine he lives more drama, and displays more devotion to the oath he has taken, than the most imaginative mind could ever invent. And he asks no special credit. When there's a job to do, he does it. A few winks of sleep. . .a few puffs of a cigarette. . .and he's back at that job again. . . According to a recent Nationwide survey: More Doctors Smoke Camels Than Any Other Cigarette! Three of America's leading independent research organizations asked 113,597 doctors to name the cigarette they themselves preferred to smoke. The answers came in by the thousands. . .from doctors in big cities, in small towns. . .from general physicians, diagnosticians, surgeons, specialists---doctors in every branch of medicine! Results? More doctors named Camels as their smoke than any other cigarette! Yes, a doctor, too, smokes for pleasure. Full flavor, coolness, and mildness mean just as much to him as they do to any other smoker. Smoke Camels and see for yourself. The "T--Zone" test will tell you The "T--Zone" ---T for taste and T for throat--is your own laboratory for any cigarette. For only your taste and your throat can decide which cigarette tastes best to you. . .and how it agrees with your throat. On the basis of the experience of many, many millions of smokers, we believe Camels will suit your "T--Zone" to a "T." Some of the ad claims approved for inclusion in Journal of the American Medical Assoc. were: "Not a cough in a carload" (for Old Gold cigarettes), "Not one single case of throat irritation due to smoking Camels," "Just what the doctor ordered" (L&M cigarettes), and "For digestion's sake, smoke Camels" (because Camel cigarettes would "stimulate the flow of digestive fluids"). By 1950, the AMA's advertising revenue exceeded $9 million. (Butt cans were a feature in radar installations, not to mention the congealed smoke on the innards of scopes and such, drawn by the static charge.)

Cigarette smoking in the military dropped from 51 percent in 1980 to 30 percent in 1998, according to a Department of Defense health survey that year. The rate remained "well above" the government's 20 percent goal for the military by 2000. By comparison, 24.1 percent of the U.S. adult population smoked in 1998, according to the American Lung Association. The Defense Department survey noted a "sharp increase" or "strong resurgence" in cigar and pipe smoking, rising from 18.7 percent in 1995 to 32.6 percent in 1998. "This trend should be addressed and monitored. . . ," the survey said. Nineteen percent of military men 24 years old and younger used smokeless products such as chewing tobacco and snuff in the month before being surveyed - far higher than the government's goal of 4 percent. During World War I, the government began including cigarettes in soldiers' rations. It was a time before medical evidence linked illness with cigarettes, historians said. In fact, many at the time viewed smoking as glamorous. Gen. John J. Pershing, who commanded the American Expeditionary Force during World War I said: "You ask me what we need to win the war? I answer tobacco as much as bullets." In 1975, the government stopped including cigarettes in rations. (I have seen old video of 50s programs in which free cartons of cigarettes were given to Veterans Hospitals. I remember getting free cigarettes in the 70s in C-rations, in three-packs if memory serves. I used to trade them. I tried smoking at Keesler, never got the hang of it, and gave up.)

I had my last "weed" on January 3, 1968. I tried to quit on New Year's Eve of 67 but fell off the wagon. So on the 3rd of Jan I tried again and made it! The first six months were the hardest. Anyone trying to quit out there....you can do it. Those damn things will kill you otherwise. It's never too late...end of lecture.

In high school during the 50's, Old Golds or Luckies were the cigarette of choice. Chesterfields were frowned upon. One guy smoked Pall Malls. Phillip Morris were seldom seen in my crowd. Camels were too strong, even though the "T Zone" said they were good for you...LOL. Filters were unheard of. In the AF I never did see any of those freebies people talk about, but they were cheap...2 bucks or less for a carton.

re: Tobacco
During my flight line years before lucking into 305, one of our favorite entertainments was giving a new troop a tour of the ramp, aboard a tug. Before starting out he would be offered a "chaw" of Red Man or Day's Work chewing tobacco. Usually, not wanting to appear unfriendly, the chunk was accepted. Then a ride around, on an essentially springless tug, until green started to appear. Fifty years later, I am still in good shape tobacco-wise, but now I think I would have a little more compassion. Perhaps.

Best to all,

Walt

When I went through basic training in 1964, a lot of people started smoking because the people who smoked got smoke breaks and the people who didn't had to police the area. So a lot of people started smoking so they could get breaks. I started smoking in 1952 when I was 6 years old. I smoked Camel non-filters so no body would bum them from me. I quit in 1992 thank goodness. I couldn't afford to smoke these days. When I started, camels were 15 cents a pack.

I was an enlisted radar technician and later an officer in the 80s. I'm going to wander among issues in this post. During the great MAC pilot exodus in the 1980s, when C-141B pilots were leaving for big airline bucks, one of their reasons was that their schedules were unpredictable and sometimes long. I always thought that was like hearing a scuba diver say he liked his job except for the getting wet part. Now the enlisted radar troops actually had a more legitimate beef. While other enlisted people at big bases had all the fine services shown in brochures, the radar guys were at small sites with limited activities. A 20-year radar career was hardly the same as, say, 20 years in a comparable technical area that had as its background an entire Air Force base. The upside was by far most of the radar techs I knew were smart guys. Yeah, some were quirky and there were more than a few characters, but by and large, that technical a field required something on the ball to be able to do it. Maybe that's where the attitude came in. A lot of them liked the life. I suppose those who didn't voted with their feet. I think the "single vs. married" debate will be ever green to this day. Some of these posts remind me of when I would hear, "With all due respect, sir, ..." Then would come, respectfully, an accounting of how I was an idiot or some such. One of my more remarkable counseling sessions concerned a young airman who bragged he could fart and burp louder than any man he knew, a fact of which I was unaware, until when one day he demonstrated his talent in front of the base commander's door. The great man, while suprised, was singularly unimpressed, or rather impressed but not in the way my man thought he might be. This fellow actually became a good troop once the NCOIC got him calmed down, a fairly considerable project for a time, requiring a daily self-checklist involving clean uniform, tooth brushing, deodorant, and military bearing, which the NCOIC monitored. I thought he was "Son of No Time for Sergeants." I had not, until then, seen a man eat French fries with both hands, one coming up to the mouth while the other grabbed more in a kind of conveyor motion. He ate quicker than most dogs. After we got him cleaned up, then he was after the women in the office, and, remarkably, successful with one. Of course, he immediately bragged about his conquest to his fellows, and eventually we had a counseling session about the inadvisability of in-office love affairs, of gentlemanly conduct in personal matters, etc. Many years later, he is now a successful businessman, runs his own business, is married to the lady mentioned earlier, and they have three kids. The Air Force taught him a skill he could use in civilian life: civilized behavior. It has served him well.

Larry - the ads promoted "Lucky Strike Green has gone to war". They were indeed green during WWII.

WW2 vets.

I was a ten year old Cub Scout when the war ended. Even so, I did my part peeling tinfoil off gum wrappers, and the inside portion of cigarette packs, to add metal to the scrap drive.

I was watching the Clint Eastwood movie Kelly's Heroes the other day. Clint took a pack of Lucky Strike cigarettes out of his pocket and lit up. The pack was white. I'm certain the packs were green back then.
Can anyone confirm this?

FLICK FLUB!

Mike,

AMDG?

Larry i!m with you AMDG??? kind of simple back in the50s went to a Army/Air Force football game couple of yrs. ago aSgt. of some sorts was there in uniform with more stripes then a zebra had to ask I think he said he was a Command CMSGT.?? Carl Wenberg former S/Sgt. (4 stripes)

Carl

A few weeks ago, when you first posted, I had to look up "zoombag" on the Encarta dictionary. :)

Greetings from this retired USAF NCO and former command post supervisor (AFSC: 27470/1C371) who served the Nation from 1981 to 2001; the highlight of his career was an assignment at NORAD Command Center, as a communications specialist and emergency actions NCO, Cheyenne Mountain Air Station. Tour of duty at NORAD, October 1989 to August 1991, with a followon assignment to the 21st Crew Training Squadron (formerly 1013 CCTS), Peterson AFB, Colorado.

AMDG,
Michael J. O'Neill

Good Assignment/Bad Assignment: All in one's perception and the circumstances at the time-- "Right-On Tom".
My History:
Tachikawa-1947
618th (Osaka) 1948-49
503rd (Roslyn Heights NY) 1949/50
Det 2 632nd (Galena AK) 1950/51
690th/135th (Kirtland AFB (1951/53)
767th (Tierra Amarilla NM) 1953
316th AD(Rabat-Sale, French Morocco) 1953/55
34th AD (Kirtland AFB) 1955/57
687th (West Mesa NM) 1957/58
316th AD (Rabat-Sale Morocco) 1958/60
908th (Marietta Ga) 1960/61
924th (Saglek Bay, Labrador) 1961/62
28th AD (Hamilton AFB CA) 1962/66
Det 1 615th (Kindsbach, Germany) 1966/70
780th (Fortuna ND) 1970/71
667th (Hofnfirdi, Iceland) 1971
12 Msl Wing (Thule, Greenland) 1972
24th AD (Malmstrom AFB, MT)1972/73

I considered the site near Tierra Amarilla remote even tho there were small towns nearby. We made commissary runs for all the married folks that lived in the site trailer park. My wife and I lived there and made many good friends. The winters were bad and isolated us and a couple of times we ate 5 in ones from the warehouse. Major Cameron was the CO and lived next to us in the court. A very nice man and excellent leader.We had a gym and a movie house and ofcourse did a bunch of hunting and fishing. The site was built on top of a mesa and I believe was 8500 feet high.We had 2 parking lots one at the bottom when the road up iced over.

The best to all of you on this Memorial Day 2008.
Chuck Sunder
Minneapolis

David Casteel and Tom are right and so is everyone else. I was remote at Murphy Dome and it was what you made it. When you walk in the site at first, you think half the people are crazy, but after being there a while you think the new guys are crazy. A big part of that is how you adapt to being remote and dealing with being away from your family. I went from an overseas assignment at Clark AB PI (first 4 months unaccompanied), to a CONUS Isolated at Makah, to just under a year and a half at McChord to the remote at Murphy. Yes, it did affect my family. I don't know if it caused the divorce or not, but it sure didn't help. She could never get and hold a job because we moved so much. Murphy Dome was not one of the bad remotes either. I had a car and could get down to Fairbanks most any time I wanted to. That is not what most Alaskan remotes had to offer. But, your attitude made a big difference in how you handled the situation. The fishing was great as they say. By the way that year and half at McChord was the only time in over a 6 year span that I could see live US TV. No, satellite in those days. That is the pits since I love to watch sports like football. It just takes something out of watching a football game on tape if you already know the score.

A/1C 634 radar Sq, Burns AFS Burns Ore. 1961-1964

ON MARRIAGE VS. SINGLE

As 'Ole' major Carter once told me. If Uncle Sam wanted you to be married He would have issued you a wife. This was shortly after his Divorce.

Remote and fights! We had a AM radio station on site run by the troops when they were checked out on eqip. had to lock door of station when we played jazz and not CW some of the good ol buys would get upset, one time sitting in club a sgt. came up to me and slugged me for no reason other then I wouldn"t play CW music for hours, I picked up a chair and threw it at him then it was broken up, all forgotten next day. Those were odd times mostly peacefull

Buck, just why am I disqualified to comment on this subject because I never married? Many, if not most, of the folks I was assigned with were also single. I will concede that being married while remote does add to the stresses--a whole lot, I imagine (I've never been married, remember?). I do not see where my statement that attitude (a desire to be happy) has a great deal to do with whether one is happy or not is incompatible with your objection. I served with a number of married men who managed to be reasonably happy even though separated from their families for a year

I'm sorry if I pulled your chain, but I certainly think I have a right to express my opinion here. (You must have a good memory since I did not mention my marital status in that post.)

Stop all this bickering and stick to the question at hand.

Will klystrons ever replace magnetrons in microwave ovens, and which microwave popcorn is the best?

Hell, a little bickering is healthy at times. But, let's don't get personal. We're all ''friends'' now (even if we had our differences back on active duty, and maybe still today). What we're here for is to preserve the history and the memory of those air-defense radar systems which played a major role in preventing World War III. This being Memorial Day weekend, what better time to stop and reflect?

As I wrote a few days ago, I think the concept of ''good assignment'' and ''bad assignment'' was all in one's own perception and the circumstances at the time. And, by the way, recall that it was not only remote tours that sometimes eroded family life. I can name quite a few marriages that ended in divorce for folks at CONUS locations, too. Working and living in such close quarters, with much of the socializing taking place right on site at the Consolidated Club, led to temptations among married folks (and single folks, too) that not everyone resisted. Those situations might not have been the sole factors, but I'm sure they contributed. At North Truro AFS alone, in the two years I was there, I can probably name at least a half dozen marriages that ended in divorce because of affairs, and only one of those had a remote tour as a factor. Whatever the cause, the effects were almost always devastating and very long lasting to those who were directly affected. Morale at North Truro AFS was significantly affected in a negative way by those affairs which tended to become public knowledge fairly quickly. From things I've heard, other sites had similar problems, though maybe not as bad (?).

Anyway, all members and all visitors are certainly welcome to express their respective opinions here. Personally, I most enjoy reading about your radar-maintenance experiences and other military-related experiences, as most of us can relate to those in one way or another. I myself love a good ''war story.''

Have a safe Memorial Day weekend!

One aspect of remote duty that no one has touched on that I can recall, was the ready availablity of alcohol. Easy access to alcohol seemed to be a part of military culture back then. I don't know if it is that way today. On our remote site, off-duty life revolved around the "club" (both enlisted and officers versions). There was no occasion too trivial for a party. At our NCO club, every Thursday was dime night, meaning any drink coud be purchased for 10 cents from the time the bar opened until it closed. Needless to say, Friday mornings were pretty grim with a lot of people nursing hangovers. Things got so bad that the CO finally restricted dime night to the first 2 hours. I saw several troops who developed a real alcohol addiction over the course of a year. I also witnessed several really vicious fistfights as a result of being drunk.

I was no choirboy when it came to drinking. In fact, I got to a point where I realized that I had to cut back. I had a real fear of sliding into alcoholism.

Larry Jackson, when were you at Cartwright? I was there from Mar 1964 through Mar 1965--I was the Radar Maintenance Officer then.

As to good and bad assignments, I think much of it is in the attitude of the person. I believe that happiness is a condition over which a person has a great deal of control. If you want to be happy, you'll find something to be happy about; if you don't want to be happy, nothing will dissuade you from it. Happiness cannot be bought, although I'll agree that it may be easier to be happy if one is not constantly worrying about food and shelter or bad health.

I cannot say that I was unhappy at any of my Air Force assignments, and I did have a few that many people would consider undesirable: Mt. Hebo AFS, Oregon; Cartwright AS, Labrador; Johnston Island, Pacific Ocean; and ARMISH/MAAG, Tehran, Iran. I found things to do at every place that I could enjoy and I pretty much stayed happy. One's attitude is crucial.

Foxharbor & Cartwright, 60-61. S/Sgt (P1) 30352, radar maintenance.

For David Casteel ,Ref your note on remote tours ,you say that attitude plays a big part in accepence of a assigment, You have not been married and That in it's self disquailfies your self. many young and old who left families back home brings a lot of guilt and a sence of worthless. I remember when I had my remote and had to leave my 7 year old daughter,extremely painfull and It caused her problems. We worry about our families and it hurts deeply to be away from them. So be careful what you say about attitudes at remote sites.

Buck Brennan has a point about remote tours. I did mine as a single guy and it was a great adventure for me. However, I do remember the stress it caused some of the married guys. One of our NCOs got a "Dear John" letter from his wife. I thought he would go out of his mind. The main reason I never re-enlisted was that I was married at that time and knew other remote tours would be in my future.

I have a niece who is married to a Navy pilot who is deployed at sea for several months at a time. He is an Annapolis graduate and has a good future in the Navy. He loves his job (he's a fighter pilot) but is getting out this year because he has three young kids and does not like being away from them.

All the talk about remote duty: I was remote 12 months (Iceland) single but engaged, many of buddies single, married most had the same opinion being remote it Sucked! on the plus side I met alot of great guys

Does anyone from the 768th--circa-56-- 57-58 remember a civilian Steve Hyatt or Hiatt? Lived in the trailer court with his wife Bobbie. I think he worked in radio with RCA but I'm not sure. I know he stayed in the ham radio shack a lot. Any info appreciated.

"U2 will enjoy Armed Forces Day at the 612th AC&W Squadron." I placed posters around Ajo, Arizona letting the locals know we were having open house that Saturday. The CO was more than mildly upset with my posters. This was around the time when Frances Gary Powers' U2 was shot down by the USSR. Not to be confused with the rock band U2.

"Magnetron Appreciation Day: It won the war. It pops your popcorn."

I enlisted in 49 and was activated in Jan 50. Went to Lackand, Keesler, and was assigned to the 606 AC&W in South Carolina for further transfer to Korea. Came back to Norton AFB, San Bernardino, Santa Rosa Island and to McClellan AFB, Ca. I was assigned to the 552nd at McClellan BEFORE it was broken down into the Squadrons. I was re-assinged to the 964th in 1954 and stayed until 1960. I was assigned to MCC just after the Connie went into the Bay on approach to Hamilton. There a lot of nice memories with the Connie.

I went on into Intelligence after MCC and a stint at McChord in the SAGE building. I did go on my own and got my Commercial Pilots lic and was check pilot for the Clark AFB Aero-Club when I retired in 1970. Ir's been a long trip, but lots of nice memories. I guess the one thing I miss most was the social life that went with most of it. The isolation sites were maddning, but necessary. I am retired in Arizona now, a long trip from my roots in Seattle. crc

Good assignment/Bad assignment...the old saying I remember was that there were only 2 good assignments: The place you just left and the place you were going next. The assignment I disliked the most was the one I waited 15 years to get.

May 17th was Armed Forces Day. Apparently I (We?) slept right through it.

Hmmm...sure enough, it's on my calendar, but I must admit that I never heard of it....or I'm getting to old to remember it. Memorial Day is coming up and overshadows Armed Forces Day I guess.

Started by Harry Truman in August, 1949.
http://www.defenselink.mil/afd/

John Tianen, there were a miniscule few promotions from the end of Korean War till there Gulf of Tonken. Military forgotten during peace time (even if there was a cold war). After Gulf of Tonken promotions became available with increased military budgets. I remember promotion that I made Staff Sargent, Feb 65. Was in 551st Elect Maint Sq. We made something like 12 MSgt, 21 TSgt and 4 SSgt. Of course a lot of the guys that made MSgt and TSgt had DOR back to end of Korean War. A lot of them were Radar Techs, Communications Techs, Nav Aids Techs and Computer Techs. Biggest promotion party I have ever been to! Here we are in another war. Have you visited a AFB and talked to the technicians. A lot of very young MSgt. Chief MSgt for the 552 AWACS Wg. Told me have to promote them or lose them.

John, forgot to say that a lot of the Techs that made MSgt and TSgt Feb 65 had come from ground radar sites.

Ajo was a bad assignment? No one told me that, and I went from there to Fox Harbor and Cartwright, Lab. Oh well.

I think the concept of ''good assignment'' and ''bad assignment'' was all in one's own perception and the circumstances at the time. My second duty assignment was North Truro AFS on outer Cape Cod, Massachusetts. I loved the place, but a number of other troops absolutely hated it. Reasons varied from the cold desolate winters to being far away from family and friends. Other reasons for liking or disliking a place like that included the mix of people -- coworkers, commander, 1st shirt, officers and senior NCOs, civilians, etc. In any case, I think for many of us, our memories of a given site tend to improve over time; that is, we tend to forget most of the bad experiences, and remember mainly the good times. At least, that's how my own memory tends to work.

I served at the Benton Air Forse station 1957-1958 in the 648thAC@W radar site. Lots of snow eh the winter but still like a private club. Fun time.

Got a chuckle out of John Tianen (dream sheet) assignment after remote, was at a site in Iceland(Langanese) put in for OtisAFB MA. HA! got assined to Miles City ,Montana thought someone was out to get me, Iceland to Montana (NICE) I guess the AF thought it was close M for Ma. and MT. it acually turned out to be a great place to be.

Every time I got assignment to new Radar Site I would call that site. Would ask what is there to do there? Normally the answer was "Well we have a lot of good hunting and fishing". Answer kinda tells you about locations. Good thing I always liked hunting and fishing.

Ref assignment luck. I was at Clear AFS Ak finishing my 3rd remote in 6 and a half yrs. Snagged an assignmnet to Coco Beach FL (Forget what the name of the site was. Patrick AFB...?) In the mean time, Mr Smarty Pants here gets himself a line number for TSgt in a mere 8 yrs. No E-6 slots at that site. So, they cnx that one and send me to Griffiss AFB and the new SOCC that had replaced the SAGE operation at Hancock Field which is where I had been just before being sent to Clear AK! Fortunately I am one of those "Make the Most of it types". Worked out well. I ALWAYS LOVED that NORAD hard-site "We have a REAL job" type of duty. The type of duty and the people were always a greater concern of mine than geographical location. (But.... COCO BEACH, man!)

I believe my remote duty tour was helpful in getting my promotion to E-4. At Saratoga AFS, there was an over-abundance of A2C in radar maintenance, all having arrived at about the same time from tech school. Radar maintenance was, I believe, the largest group on the site. Those guys were very specialized, having worked on a specific piece of equipment and nothing else. Many were nothing more than clerks, manning telephones to coordinate maintenance with Hancock Field. Imagine spending a year in tech school only to be a phone jockey. We even had a 30352 who ran ran the bowling alley. My experience at the remote site in Iceland was much more varied. We had a small group and everybody did everything. We were all generalists so we gained experience on all the equipment. I also obtained my 5 level while in Iceland. I like to think that my extra experience was the difference that got me the extra stripe. I can recall a lot of resentment that promotion cycle. There were only about a half-dozen A1C stripes given out and I was one of the few in radar maintenance that got one. All those guys who had spent time there out of tech school thought they deserved the stripe. Sadly, many of those guys spent their entire enlistment as A2Cs. I'm convinced it had nothing to do with their competence, there just were too few stripes available for the people eligible for them. I also think it discouraged re-enlistment. Many said "why should I have to re-enlist just to get to be airman-first". I would also like to point out that I was probably lucky when I got my promotion. Back then, you were required to state your re-enlistment status about 8 or 9 months before your enlistment was up. I received my promotion with about 10 months to go. If an A2C stated he was going to get out, he could kiss any hope of a promotion good-bye. On the other hand, those who decided to re-up while still an A2C, got their stripe. That to me, seemed very unfair.

Seems like all the A/3C grunts at Sparrevohn, AK back in 55 went up to A/2C before rotation. Probably one reason was that we were not overly staffed like John describes below....less competition. I remember working 7 days a week for the first 3 months I was there. There was nothing else to do anyhow so what the hell...That included 2 weeks straight KP as soon as I arrived.The good thing about the 2 weeks KP was the fact that you didn't have to do it anymore while there. However, murphy's law prevailed....After 12 months at Sparrevohn, I went to Elmendorf awaiting a flight back to the lower 48....guess what? I found myself on the KP roster...paid someone $20 to pull it for me.

Aaron, and others who are interested - there's an F-117 and B-2 on display at the National Museum of the Air Force, at Wright-Patterson. The -117 has been there for several years; the B-2 for perhaps a couple of years.

If you had an AC&W-related AFSC (operations or radar maintenance), sooner or later you would draw a "short straw" and wind up at one of those less-than-desirable assignments. Let's face it, radar sites were often placed on the top of a hill or mountain in some out-of-the way place. For every Fort Fisher, there was a Cut Bank, MT or an Ajo, AZ. I drew my "short straw" right out of tech school and wound up in Iceland for a year. While it was a remote assignment, it could have been worse. Returning from Iceland, I was assigned to Saratoga Springs AFS, in a summer resort area of New York State. It was a very nice assignment but I knew that if I re-enlisted that there would be a Cut Bank, MT or a Tin City, AK, awaiting me in the future.

John....You neglected those "choice" assignments on the Continental Shelf.

I'm sure you've all heard about the "....OK, who knows how to type?"
Well when I went to teletype operator's school that was the first question they asked. I eagerly raised my hand. So I was placed in a "special" class. I believe we graduated in 11 weeks. The other students, who didn't know how to type, didn't graduate for 14 weeks, the reason being they had to learn how to type first before learning anything else. On the surface, it looked like the "specials" got a good deal. Upon further review however, the situation turned out quite different. Us "specials" got assigned to Alaska, Labrador, Canada, and oh yes, Cutbank MT. The guys who didn't know how to type went on to crypto school and then were assigned to Japan and Europe. I think that was when I learned that life is a crapshoot and you have to roll with the punches.

One of the perks of a remote tour of duty was that you supposedly could get an assignment in an area of your choice when returning from the remote tour. I remember we filled out what I recall as a "dream sheet" where we specified where we wanted to go next. I requested Watertown AFS as that was my home town. Instead, I was assigned to Saratoga AFS, about 150 miles away. Not bad...

I'm not so sure that others were as lucky in their next assignment coming off a remote tour. I had heard stories of people coming off one remote tour and being assigned another.

Now on e-Bay, unrelated in any way to me: Air Force Radar Station Post Office Box Door, Item no.:130222835362, from Waverly, Iowa. Three other doors available are available, seller writes.

Pricey in my book, but maybe if you were there you’d want one.

I remember visiting this site on a tour as a Cub Scout. Little did I know years later I would be a maintenance guy on this kind of equipment in its sunset days. I had a couple of post office boxes like that elsewhere.

I recently took a day trip to Wilmington NC for two reasons; to tour the USS North Carolina and visit the site of the Ft Fisher AFS. Although the battleship was great, the Ft Fisher AFS was very interesting especially when I returned and read information on the Radome website.

It became very apparent I drew the short straw out of Kessler back in 65 when I was assigned to Finland AFS, MN. When drawing comparison between Finland AFS and Ft Fisher AFS I found:
-we were high in virtually uninhabited mountains, they were on Kure beach
-we had snow and cold to -35, they had sun, warm beaches and sea breezes
-we had a curling rink, they had a swimming pool
-they had bikini clad ladies, we didn’t
-their site became a resort for retirees, ours became a fish processing facility and environmental liability

Just another example of how life isn’t always fair.

After reading msgs on F-117 and Cheyenne Mtn, I'm wondering if:
1. Cheyenne Mtn cud save a few 'business suites' amidst the big
records, etc. operations that may be there...The 'Little NORAD HQ'
cud be one of a few others [Cold Lake AB? Flying Command Post?]...

2. F-117s: Pick 3-4 nice-looking ones, pull out engines and any-
thing classified [leaving dummy engines, electronix, etc.] and put
these 'pristine' ships in AF Museums [Ohio, DC-area, Nellis?].
Take out anything which we don't want enemy to find and fit mini-
guns and 20mm GAU [slow firing to save ammo, say 3-4Krpm]...Paint
topside in desert-camo to match Theatre; paint underside with 'sky'
blue/grey to match Theatre...Run 'em into the ground--as the 'DAY-
hawk' which cud foil stolen 'Stingers' and other shoulder-fired
missiles. Sneak around, backing up Predators: Preds find badguys,
refer them to Dayhawks...Only do up to mid-level maint. on 117s.
If they wear out or their systems die, canibalize 'em down to a
very few. Our good Nighthawk drivers cud fly 117s some days, Preds
the others? Think of the 117 as a BIG Pred...Guys at Nighthawk
base in NV can become our first F-35 drivers? A few cud go to B-2s
after transitioning?..Let's use the Nighthawks up in a neat way--
crumping badguys using our stealthy tricks by day [and night--
the 'day' colors don't show up at nite!]
Aaron..

To Don Westphal---What a pleasure to see a comment from someone who actually was stationed at Finland AFS. There just aren't too many of us out there. As for that curling rink we had, who would have ever imagined that curling would become an olympic event!

Re Don Westphal's entry below. I really enjoyed reading your comments. Yes, Fort Fisher AFS was a great assignment. In fact, we liked it so much that veterans of the site are holding a reunion later this year, 17-19 October. If anyone who was stationed there reads this and didn't previously know about the reunion, please contact me. Thanks! We're expecting a rather decent turnout.

I'm watching "Charlie Wilson's War". Perhaps we have all kinds of Cheyenne Mountain facilities, here and there and elsewhere. We just don't know about them, ey? The Laser Blazer was hush hush, until someone got smart. : )

As a "tag-on" to Larry Jackson's comments,the F-117 stealth fighter was first delivered to the Air Force in 1982. The B-2 stealth bomber was first shown to the public in 1988.It is a fair point to note that there is much out there (no conspiracy theories please!) that we don' know about.

Gates Salutes NORAD’s 50 Years as Guardian of Skies, by Gerry J. Gilmore, American Forces Press Service; COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., May 13, 2008 – Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates saluted North American Aerospace Defense Command’s role as the guardian of North American skies at the organization’s 50th anniversary observance here last night. NORAD, a U.S.-Canadian military organization, was established May 12, 1958, to defend North America from air and space threats. “Both of our nations are dedicated to protecting North Americans from air attacks, and this institution remains a vital part of the defense of the continent,” Gates said during his address at NORAD’s Golden Jubilee Ball at the Broadmoor resort. Canada has long been a valued friend of the United States, Gates said, noting he shared the podium with Canadian Minister of National Defense Peter Gordon MacKay. Gates thanked Canada for its partnership in the war on terror. Some 3,000 Canadian troops are serving in NATO’s International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. “I also thank you for your ongoing commitment to NORAD,” Gates told MacKay. The then-Soviet Union’s launch of its Sputnik satellite in 1957 “accelerated the space race and raised the specter of attack on our homeland by intercontinental ballistic missiles,” Gates recalled. The United States and Canada set up an extensive radar network to protect North American air space, Gates said, and NORAD operations began on Sept. 12, 1957, eight months before the command’s formal establishment. NORAD’s mission is no less important today, Gates observed, especially with the advent of transnational terrorism. Operation Noble Eagle airspace-protection missions have been flown over the homeland since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, he said. Noble Eagle supplies a ready alert force, air patrols, and surveillance to the United States and Canada, Gates said. Its pilots have flown 45,000 sorties since the terror attacks, he noted. NORAD always is on guard for enemy threats emanating from the skies or space, Gates said. In 2006, NORAD added maritime surveillance to its mission list. Starting even before its formal establishment, NORAD has tracked Santa Claus each year as he flies around the world in his reindeer-drawn sleigh bringing Christmas gifts and cheer to children worldwide, Gates said. “Looking back at all the years, and all the Christmases spent tracking Santa, we take for granted the advances that have been made --– like satellites in space and the ability to communicate across the globe in an instant,” Gates observed. NORAD has steadfastly performed its important missions with creativity and innovation for the past half-century, Gates said. “It is, in the final analysis, still one of our first and last defenses of that which we cherish most: our loved ones, our liberties, our countries,” Gates said. “To all the men and women who have dedicated their lives to defending this continent, I thank you,” the secretary said. “As we look back on all that has been accomplished, let us also look forward to new challenges and new triumphs.” NORAD and U.S. Northern Command are based at Peterson Air Force Bbase here and are commanded by U.S. Air Force Gen. Victor E. Renuart Jr., whose deputy at NORAD is a Canadian flag officer, Lt. Gen. Charlie Bouchard. Established on Oct. 1, 2002, U.S. Northern Command conducts homeland defense and civil support missions. U.S. and Canadian military officials at NORAD are now “fusing together their mutual interests, their great planning capabilities” to improve the organization so it can successfully confront future challenges, Renuart said.

Re Gary Jacobs's entry below -- It continues to be a major concern to many of us that our ''Guardian of Skies'' (i.e., NORAD) now operates in an unhardened office building out in the open at Peterson AFB. Buildings like that one appear to be quite vulnerable to attacks of various kinds. When I visited the Peterson Air & Space Museum last month, I voiced these concerns to key members of the museum staff. I was surprised when they mentioned that there was a study ongoing for constructing a hardened bunker for NORAD operations right there at Peterson AFB. That seems like a step in the right direction. But, then again, the Cheyenne Mountain Complex is so nearby. So, this begs the question: Why not move NORAD operations back into the Mountain? Sure, there are high maintenance costs, and it's a little longer commute, but so what? Shouldn't our ''Guardian of Skies'' be afforded the highest level of protection available? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I still say NORAD operations needs to remain safely tucked away inside Cheyenne Mountain. That's my 2 cents anyway. Does anyone out there agree or disagree? Thanks.

I agree with your comments Tom on the security of the NORAD opns. There are some major Natioanl security issues that need to be reviewed and acted upon. There will always be political and budget concerns but those should be set aside for the present and the appropriate planning should take place with realistic deadlines set for implementation with a plan for following up to see that all actions have been accomplished. We have the knowledge and ability to resolve this issue quickly. Hopefully we as Nation will not become complacent again and wait until we are caught looking the other way again.

I was stationed at the Kotzebue AFS radar site July 1975 to July 1976 a member of Detachment 12, the AFCS Communications unit, as NCOIC Teletype Maintenance.

Names of people I knew from there that quickly come to mind:

Military
Don Hager, Monty Wade, Tom Telecky, Dave Hannon, Dale Buchannon,"Slim" Williams, "The Wop", "Filthy" Foster, "Mac" the DETCO, Carol Spires, Capt Hancock, Doc Jay North, Randy Fairbanks, McEwan, Wilborn, "The Piranha Brothers", Kellam, Kellum, "Stamp".

Civilans
Dave Berg, Bill Bean, Dorothy Foxglove, Dolly, Daphne.

Would love to hear from anyone who was stationed there around the same period.

Hello everbody,I was in the Air Force from July 54 until Jan 64,served in AC&W,Klamath,Ca,went to Japan in 55,613th site 33,site 42,went to Shaw 363rd Comm Sqdn,went to McChord in Wash,state,went to Hickham,in Hawaii,lewistown Mont,Miles City,Mont,Harmon A.F.B.Stephenville,Newfoundland,I was in Wire Maint,loved my job,but got tired of moving too much,got out went into AF reserve for 2 yrs make S/Sgt,got out went into Army nat grd,in 74,retired in 86,finally retired from my civvie job in 94,moved from N.H.to Largo Fl,for the winters,go to N.H. in summers,Have a 24 class-c motorhome live in that,but see my children and grandchildren,retired with rank of S/Sgt e-6

Hi All: If you have not 'signed in' on the radar sites' rosters
pls read how to [little 'topic-window' to the left]...Pls include
your middle initial and current email or USPS address or phone nr
if you don't have email. Pls lookit others' entries to see how-to
and ur knickname, too...You do not have to be a member of Radomes
to sign-in but pls consider joining...If you spot any errors in ur
or other's entries pls msg me with correct data--tnx...
Aaron Allen...

Robert L Howton, shown on the 637th Site Roster in 4/1967 to 12/68 - the wrong email address is listed. This email listing is for Rick Howton, who notified me he's not Robert, and wasn't in the AF in 1967 - he was only 11 years old...
Can you shoot me an email and also go in and correct your email address on the Othello AFS site roster? Were you at Othello at that time, and if so, would you be interested in this year's reunion?

Othello AFS Reunion at San Antonio

The 637th AC&W Squadron reunion is being held this year on Oct 1-4 at the Red Roof Inn (Downrown/Riverwalk. It's being organized by John Stegall, of 9803 Zion Way, Austin, TX 78733.
John has already sent out letters with the schedule and program, and it sounds great!
Bob Neil is maintaining the unit roster, so if you have changes or want to add yourself to it, email him at neil.r@sbcglobal.net

I was in Germany with the the radar unit at Sembach work in mobility.Wallace AFS in the Phillipines.621st in NKP Thailand also was at Clear AFS Alaska.Like to hear from you guys that was station at some of the places.

I arrived at Keesler AFB direct from basic training at Parks AFB Ca.
in Sep 1956..since tech school was full I was tdy to Air Police...later that fall hurricane "Judy" came through ..while that was happening I was on duty guarding radar trailer in Gulfport..just before "Judy" hit the Air Force came to the airport and removed the trailer ..but they would not allow me to leave the post so I went through the storm in a guard shack that somehow survived the storm but they were not able to get to the site to relieve me until about 12 hrs later..sure glad to see the bus coming after me...just a memory from Keesler.....anyone there at that time ??? USA

I was stationed at Mt Hebo AFS from 10/64 to 9/67 assigned the 689th radar squardron. I worked on the FPS-24. Would like to hear from anyone who served there during that time to talk over some war stories.