Hello Fellow Vets, No one who visits this site needs to be reminded of the real purpose of Memorial Day. It is however our duty to continue to help others understand and remember that this is more than a weekend for beaches, store sales and Bar B Q`s. We are the lucky ones. The ones we are remembering gave `everything` as they performed their duty. So, I for one will be looking this weekend for a vet, usually from WWII selling those famous red poppies. The ultimate tribute is to go up to that person, extend your hand (or salute) and say---`thank you.` In Flanders Fields John McCrae, 1915. `In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields.`

Went thru Keesler 1959-60,radar maint school. i finished basic there but forsome reason I kept being put on KP for a week at a time (I also recall being extremely tired during these stints) I joined in late October but never finished basic till the end of March.Five months!? The worst part was no pass intil you were done with basic! When I got out to the 759th, I was a two striper filling a TSgt slot. we had3 radars with only 11 maint. troops.When I shipped to Alaska 18 months later we had 34 guys and the same 3 radars?

Just for information, coming up in August 19 Through 21 or longer for those who want to hang out, a second reunion of the 799th A.C.& W. sqdn at Joelton TN. Anyone & everyone that was at the 799th are encouraged to attend. We had a great time in 2003 and anticipate even more fun in 2005. For information contact me by E-mail. If you know anyone who was a 799th member please pass the word THANKS Jerry

I should have said in the previous message that the reunion is August 19 through 21,2005.Sorry I left off the year.Jerry

I arrived at Keelser shortly after hurricane Camille. We had extended K-P, typing class, hanger painting and pine needle shifting.Alos had a lot of free time.

I was also at Keesler AFB, MS as an instructor in the ECCB/AJO course during Camille. As I recall we suspended classes for two weeks and helped clean up the entire area around Biloxi. Each of us NCOs had a dump truck and were assigned a group of young airmen to go to specified areas and clean-up. It was truly a great spirit of service to the community by the Air Force personnel.

Spent time on several Radar Sites. Caswell AFS, ME Almaden AFS, CA and Blaine AFS, WA. Mostly in the 60`s All in Radar Maint.

KP, damned KP. I arrived at the 719th AC&W, Sparrevohn, Alaska in January of 1955. Within a day or two I found myself on KP, which lasted two weeks. The mess hall was a quonset hut, and the kitchen was a small, cramped area. It was a miserable two weeks. When I finally left Sparrevohn after 12 months, I went through Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage. The second day I was at Elmendorf....guess what.....I found my name on the KP roster. I found someone to pull it for me for 20 bucks. Ah, memories.

I sure would like to see mention & pictures, etc. of the airborne `Fire Control Systems`. AKA E-4, E-5, E-6, E-9, MG10, MG12, etc. Regards,

What a place to visit! I`m glad to see the people who held things together are still holding things together, without banging any airplanes into each other.

I actually wanted to be an AP, but was told my test scores were too high for that AFSC, can you believe it? Did anyone else have to do extended KP at Keesler before the next class was started? We did 2 straight weeks.

Re Gene McManus` and others mention of their recollections of where we would end up if we failed electronics/radar school. I was in the 3382nd School Squadron in the Triangle Area, and I went through Basic Electronic Devices and Sets beginning March 1964, I think. If we washed out, our fear was to be relegated to `Ditty-Bop` and, subsequently, the insane asylum. Our class was also one of the first to be trained via television intructions (TVI). The presentations were of a very amateur level and exeedingly boring, and tended to put the students to sleep. The school`s answer was to turn down the temperature so that it was so damned cold we wouldn`t nod off.

I did the extended KP thing at Keesler for a couple of weeks before school started. Ended up on the 3rd shift for school, which was great. Left Keesler for Sweetwater, TX. in `66. Tsgt Baldwin was one of our instructors. He was transferred to Sweetwater about a year after I got there. I look back on my time with really good memories.

I started tech school at Keesler in the late summer of `61. I was assigned to the 3383rd Squadron in the Triangle Area. At that time the first week of class was known as `academic KP`. In my case, we were awakened at around 4:00AM and bused to a mess hall across the base. I can remember being so tired that I fell asleep on the sidewalk while waiting for the mess hall to open. As I recall, it was an officer`s mess hall and my job was to receive the dirty trays and clean the food off before passing the tray on to the dishwashers. Again, I was so tired that I would fall asleep between trays. We had to do that for a week straight. Another thing many of us had to contend with was the finishing of our basic training while attending basic electronics courses. I was on the `A` shift which meant we were up at around 4:00AM and marching to class by around 5:30. School was out at noon. We marched back across the flight line, ate lunch and started 2 hours of basic training around 1300. The basic training went on for at least 2 more months. Most students stayed for the full length of the electronics course but some students were assigned to radar squadrons after completing only the basic electronics part of the course. Those of us who completed the `full` course were awarded a `3` level and usually got a second stripe (E-3). Those taking the abbreviated course left school with 1 stripe(E-2) and were expected to get to the 3 level through OJT. Keep in mind that this was at the height of the cold war just after the Berlin Crisis and just prior to the Cuban Missle Crisis and the number of AC&W sites nation wide and world wide were at their peak. My guess is that they needed manpower so badly that they were willing to try anything to fill the ranks.

It was interesting to read Ed Franklin`s story about the 823rd ACW Sq in Spokane. I finished my Air Force career as the Operations NCOIC of the 823rd Radar Sq in Aug 1975 and chose to stay here in Spokane for the past 30 years. Radar Operations was relocated to Mica Peak sometime before I arrived in 1972 and is now operated by FAA. We had a great reunion of the 823rd in 2001 which was well attended.

Other vintage Keesler terminology: `Beat and Blow,` for the drum and bugle corps., `chirps,` for the choir,` `C-O-T` for `common, ordinary troop,` that is the airman not assigned to some special unit or detail, like drill team, drum and bugle corps, etc. There was also some kind of computation of `short` that involved dividing some periods I forget. The involved party would holler, `SHORT,` then this quotient. Immediately some shorter person would try to top that. It was a kind of rollercoaster, some guys who flunked the tests twice would literally be in tears. I think in my time there such wash-outs were welcomed to be cooks or cops or fuel specialists, supposedly with a quick ticket to Vietnam. I remember when at the very end my class graduated, one fellow went out and jumped on a picnic table and broke it in half. And let`s not forget `hurricane watch,` or sending someone for a bucket of video paint, or grid leak bias. Or the seeming endless buzz of those prop trainer aircraft that South Vietnamese and other pilots flew. Then again, I had a roommate who insisted the best way to get to sleep was to play Led Zeppelin on his 8-track so it went on all night ... zzzz. Not.

The Keesler thread: I lived in absolute fear of flunking out of electronics/radar school. We were told that the next stop was `Cook & Baker`s` school or Air Police. As a result I really worked at it, and did pretty well.

I love this web site as more former military subscribe and enter their 2 cents. The plexiglass plotting boards reminds me of a story from the 823rd AC&W Sqdn, Geiger Field, Spokane, Wa in 1958. We were in the middle of a 3-day ORI and there was a lull for noon chow. Down to a skeleton crew with a lite load of invaders, one of the plotters waiting to be relieved for chow had a horendous sneeze and deposited a `hawker` on one of the mouthpieces of his headset which he placed on the rack and put on another one. Once all were back from chow the change of personnel began as the surveillance track capacity grew in intensity and volume. One plotter, on the upper tier, replacing another had picked the fouled headset, placed it on his head, and swung the mouthpiece into place which touched his lips. Looking at it he realized what had taken place and his stomach emptied all over the plotting board and the guys next to him and below him. Within seconds all 6 plotters and the weather/launch board plotters expelled their stomach contents. Can you imagine the looks of the plotting boards as the plotters tried to use their cloths to clean the boards? White, yellow, green and red combined. Shortly thereafter the crosstellers received the odor and their stomachs expelled its contents. Needless to say, the ASO/AST called all sites to inform them of our outage from the ORI. We were down and out and it took maintenance two days to get the stench from the consoles, the cable bays, and the floor. Oh for those times of fun, glory, and overall happenings. Radar Ops was never the same after that!!

I can see why some would have a fear of `flunking out` to the Air Police. When I was at the 932nd in Iceland, I roomed with our motor pool driver. He once told me `Do you know that there are XXXX rivets on the belly of a B-47 bomber. I asked him how he came to know that interesting bit of trivia. It seems that his prior assignment was in SAC where he drove a canteen truck that supplied hot chow to the APs guarding the bombers on the flight line. Standing guard for all those hours was boring and I guess some of the guards passed the time by counting rivets. There are probably some similar tales floating around of boredom-induced trivia produced by staring for hours at a PPI.

reference the comment on 5/17 from Buck Brennan, I can not find where Guy147@mugu.org has made any comments at all this year. I have nothing else to do and I am interested in reading them. Maybe then I can get a life.

TRYING TO FIIND INFO FOR MY BOSS WHO WAS ON P MOUNTAIN 931st ACW IN 1962-3

About the WAFs. I saw none while I was in tech school at Keesler in `60-`61. My 1st assignment was remote and none there either. But when I arrived at Hancock Field in `62 we had several working at the Combat Center, including two on my crew. I don`t recall that it was much of a big deal, one way or the other. They showed up for duty and pulled their weight just like the rest of the crew.

searching for material re: the 796th AC&W Sq. located in Bartlesville, Ok during the 1950s. I was stationed there 1953/1955.

For those who put the BUIC SITE list together, I was station 759th AC$W Radar Squadron at Naselle Washington and we were a BUIC site. We had 4 AN/UPA-35 Scopes (I and my crew salvaged out of some wearhouse), an upright,double level glass plotting board with a cat-walk behind it so airmen could reach the upper level of the board. In addition,our facility was used to train second officers to become Weapons Controllers. We even trained Navy personnel off of Picket Ships.

To my Pals from the 759th and 777th AC&W Radar Squadons, I`ld be happy to hear from any of you. I served at the 759th during 1962-1964 and the 777th during 1964-1965. I was a Radar Technician.

1958-1962 stationed at the 867th AC&W Sq. at lookout mt, Tenn, and the 713th AC&W Sq/ at Bethel Ak

Add to my previous msg: 770 RADRON (SAGE), Palermo AFS, NJ 11/59-3/61 687 ACWRON, West Mesa, NM 12/64-5/68 771 RADRON (SAGE), Cape Charles, VA 5/71-8/72. Most of my non-ADC time was O/S in AFCS/AFCC.

Does anyone remember being called a pinger at Keesler AFB? Anyone remember why we were called that?

For Charles McClure: Regarding your question about being known as `Pingers` at Keesler: I don`t recall being called a Pinger in the radar maintenance field, but after I got out of the Air Force in 1968, I`ve spent the last 36 years working for the Navy, mainly on underwater recording systems. Many underwater vehicles and objects, such as remotely operated vehicles(ROV), torpedos and targets, utilize pingers or sonic locaters so they can be tracked during operations, or located and recovered afterwards. I`ve always equated the term `pinger` as a sonar-related term, but it`s easy to see where it could also be related to radar.

For Charles McClure: When I went to Keesler in 1972 the term `pinger` stood for someone right out of Basic Training at Lackland. The story was if you listened real hard at night you could hear the hair `ping` as it re-emerged from the scalp. And as far as I can remember everyone who was fresh out of Lackland got that nickname until they had enough hair to deserve a proper haircut. The term was not reserved for just the radar techs.

Gene (et al), Thanks for this labor of love! I was one of those GATR site weenies who was always on one site or another every time I came back from O/S. Even my Terminal assignment was a half-baked RADRON - 728TCS, Eglin. In truth the only one I ever disliked. Lord! I miss ADC. Wonder if 911 would have gone down if...?

What a fantastic site! As an old Titan II and Minuteman crewdog, I saw a lot of old AD items, esp. the SAGE bldg at Grand Forks AFB. Live not far from Snow Mtn AFS in KY, thanks MUCH for the great info!

I am 60 years old. I was a military radar design engineer for more than 30 years. Fire control radars on warships,fighters,anti-air landvehicles were my objects.

Re Tom`s comments on 5/10/04. Well said Tom. In fact, perhaps you might want to consider politics on your own!!! Seriously, we hear more than enough today about politics without needing to hear it from some people who visit this tremendous web site that you & Gene created. It`s been said before, but I will repeat: thanks for what you both have done for those of us who served `way back when.`

CAME UPON THIS SITE BY ACCIDENT - GETTING READY FOR A CRUISE TO ALASKA AND WAS `SUFFERING` ALASKA.

Enjoy your website, I was stationed at the 872nd AC&W squadron in Constantina, Spain 1960-1963. Look forward to more info on the Spain sites.

I was a Radio Operator at the 665th AC&W Sqdn in Calumet, MI from Dec 1953thru Dec 1954. Anyone familiar with this time element, drop me a line.

The Fallon NAS website lists the 858 AC&W squadron, later Radar Squadron as the 858 Air Defense Group. Can anyone tell me if the 858 ever carried the designation as an Air Defense Group.

ANOMOLOUS PROPOGATIONS? HOAX? Mexican A.F. Pilots Film `UFOs` MEXICO CITY, May 12, 2004 CBS NEWS.COM-- Mexican Air Force pilots filmed 11 unidentified flying objects in the skies over southern Campeche state, a Defense Department spokesman confirmed Tuesday. A videotape made widely available to the news media on Tuesday shows the bright objects, some sharp points of light and others like large headlights, moving rapidly in what appears to be a late-evening sky. The lights were filmed on March 5 by pilots using infrared equipment. They appeared to be flying at an altitude of about 11,480 feet, and allegedly surrounded the Air Force jet as it conducted routine anti-drug trafficking vigilance in Campeche. Only three of the objects showed up on the plane`s radar. An exchange between the radar operator and the captain of the surveillance aircraft, as recorded on the tape in Spanish: Radar operator: `There they go, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, no, there are eight. There we are going to see them, they go to an unusual speed. One, two, three, four, five , six, seven, eight in the screen.` Captain: `Are they at the same altitude?` Radar operator: `Affirmative` `Was I afraid? Yes. A little afraid because we were facing something that had never happened before,` said radar operator Lt. German Marin in a taped interview made public Tuesday. `I couldn`t say what it was ... but I think they`re completely real,` added Lt. Mario Adrian Vazquez, the infrared equipment operator. Vazquez insisted that there was no way to alter the recorded images. The plane`s captain, Maj. Magdaleno Castanon, said the military jets chased the lights `and I believe they could feel we were pursuing them.` When the jets stopped following the objects, they disappeared, he said. A Defense Department spokesman confirmed Tuesday that the videotape was filmed by members of the Mexican Air Force. The spokesman declined to comment further and spoke on customary condition of anonymity. The video was first aired on national television Monday night then again at a news conference Tuesday by Jaime Maussan, a Mexican investigator who has dedicated the past 10 years to studying UFOs. `This is historic news,` Maussan told reporters. `Hundreds of videos (of UFOs) exist, but none had the backing of the armed forces of any country. ... The armed forces don`t perpetuate frauds.` Maussan said Secretary of Defense Gen. Ricardo Vega Garcia gave him the video on April 22.

instructor at keesler ms from 1968 -1988 also at rdar site befor

Just one more note on females - I was stationed at King Salmon in 1984 just after the local radar ops were shut down. I was told by others who had been there that at least 2/3 of the operators were female. Also, at all three Alaska remotes I was on, we had at least one female in comm maintenance/operations.

As one of the cofounders of this online museum, I have to concur with those of you who favor keeping this Guestbook politically neutral, so to speak. Having said that, I also wish to emphasize that we fully support all of the U.S. Constitutional freedoms -- freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and so forth. We do not wish to stifle free speech by restricting comments in this Guestbook (that is, as long as such comments are not vulgar and are in good taste). Still, since our charter is preserving air-defense history and its memories (good and bad), I suggest we focus on those facets. Now, please excuse me for a moment while I wax philosophic. We all know that the military is governed by politics, with some political parties in general and certain politicians specifically supporting the U.S. military more than others do. Most of us have our own opinions about this, so let`s express them at the polls each November. Shame on anyone who does not make the effort to get out and vote where physically possible. Freedom is not free, and democracy does not work by accident. Make yourselves heard at each election so that the United States of America remains a nation of the People, by the People, and for the People ... or indeed it will perish from this earth. So, don`t express your politital or other opinions here -- do it at the polls or in other appropriate forums like writing to your elected officials. Thanks, everyone! Now, back to air-defense history and memories. -- Tom

Two things: As the poster of the NY Times story on NORAD and the 9/11 Commission, my intent was to highlight air defense news which may have been of interest to those who worked in this field. I intended no political statement whatsoever. Second, thanks to those who posted items about women in the 303X2 career field in response to my query.

Interesting about female in 303 304 etc. career skills, how about the 1950s early 60s Wafs (at that time) in the 273 (scope dope) skills worked with them in 1958 Selfridge AFB some great and others not just like male counterparts, any of them out there?

I served with women at various locations. They were, almost without exception, as good as or better than the men. Having them did cause problems of various natures. i don`t feel they should have been allowed to enter the career filed (273X0, 276X0 or 17XX). Please keep the politics out of this forum.

Get use to the fact that in todays military females are just as inportant and serve with honor as most males. We have pilots and just about every career field there are females. The problem all along was males had to get use to them. Sure we had some bad apples but our job was to weed them out as I would have done with any person that could not meet the standards

I served with WAFS 05/57 to 05/61 in the 273 `scope dope` field and they were just as good as the men, although they became offended easily. I served at an Alaska remote site (King Salmon 57/58) but there were no WAFS there. I found out that in the later 60s, WAF radar operators were being stationed at the remote sites. During my federal civil service career testing combat system software for the Navy, Marine Core, and Army I interfaced with many female militay radar operators who were just as competent as the men, but yes sometimes their presence did cause distractions to the various groups. It is very difficult to merge groups like this and still realize complete autonomy from one another. One needs to be aware of the expected bumps in the road and manage accordingly.

Between mid-1949 and late 1969, never had any women in any of the radar maintenance tech schools I attended or out at the sites (Japan, Alaska, Lower-48) I was stationed at. Didn`t have any enlisted or officer women at any of the sites, period, regardless of career field. I`m sure this was an anomoly, though, as prior `notes` indicate otherwise. Does anyone know when women first attended the radio and radar career fields tech schools for both maintenance and ops?

Have enjoyed checking in to the guest site, every couple of weeks. Sometimes finding a name of someone I knew while in the Air Force, 1956 to 1960. Checked in this morning, after a few weeks, to find that it is being used by some for political propaganda purposes. Very Sad.

Served with the 646th AC&W Sqdn. (1954 to 1956) at Highlands AFS, NJ.

WENT TO THE 811th AC&W Sqdn in 1957 and saw it built from the ground up and left in 1959. a very nice location in south texas.

OTHER THAN THE 811th, I WAS ALSO DET 5, 4768thGROUND OBSERVER SQDN, WORKING OUT OF CORPUS CHRISTI, TEXAS 1955 - 1957. ANOTHER FINE LOCATION.

Just looking for friends

Currently work at Cape Newenham LRRS , looking for photos for a bullinten board here at the site.

Was stationed at Paine Field (Everett, Wn.) 1954-56. Remember many of the AC&W sites out on the Olympic Peninsula in those days. We had some 29150`s out there but I never got the call. Remember Neah Bay in particular. Thanks for the memories. BM

WAFs, or Women in the Air Force existed until sometime in the mid-1970s, if memory serves. I recall hearing that women were in the pipeline as AC&W radar maintenance types, 303X2. My radar days ended before I knew of any. Did in fact any women make it into the field before it was shut down? (Not as WAFs, but as what we might term regular airmen.) I am not sure since this could have been a `combat` assignment, but then again radar was not typically a front-line assignment.

There were quite a few women AC&W Techs. starting in the seventies. As far as I know most of the electronic fields were opened to women. I even served a remote tour at Cold Bay, AK in 1976 with about eleven military women in several different fields. By far the majority of them were just as professional and effective as their male counterparts.

This is for Gary Jacobs and Ed Franklin. First, for Gary, there were women radar maintenance types. One of the first I knew was at your old unit, the 622 TCF, and her name was Bridgette Cummings, and she was a good `maintenance person`. Second, for Ed, I wholeheartedly agree with your views. Don`t vote Kerry in, and vote the rest of the bastards out!!!

For Gary Jacobs. Women started working in the electronics fields in large numbers in 1973-1974. I worked with two of some of the first ones at the 689th, Mt Hebo. One worked in the FPS-90 tower and the other was assigned to the FPS-27 tower. They both arrived on station in 1975 and caused a bit of a stir because there was no dorm space for women on the hill. They ended up putting them in the Senior NCO barracks since it only had 4 or five rooms in it. The one assigned to the 90 tower was married to another airman when she arrived but the one assigned to the 27 tower, and a supply troop that arrived at about the same time, were single. If I remember correctly there was only one person living in the Senior NCO barricks at the time, a TSGT I think. After this more and more women were showing up in all the electronics fields. I moved to aircraft electronics in 1976 and worked with a large number of women over the years and found them to be just a capable as any of the men I worked with. And just like the men, some were better than others, but I never felt any of them were being given a pass on doing their job. By the way, I ended up marrying the young lady that started working in the FPS-27 tower.

When I went on active duty in the mid 1970s as a CEM Maintenance Officer, there were quite a few women in all radar-site related skills: 303xx (radar maintenance), 304xx (radio maintenance), 305xx (computer maintenance), etc. Also, several women were at other radar sites as CEM Maintenance Officers (2Lt`s), such as at Cambria AFS, Fortuna AFS, North Truro AFS, and Empire AFS, that I can recall. As with men (officers and enlisted), some were better than others. Incidentally, I visited the radar site at Tyndall AFB just 3 years ago (May 2001), and one female FAA technician who worked in the ARSR-4 radar work center said she started out in 1977 in the AN/FPS-35 search radar tower at Montauk AFS. So, at least one female radar maintenance tech has made a life-long career of it.

Gentlemen & Ladies: Two Things. One, Congress has nothing to do with the 9/11 Commmission. Two, petty personal political convictions have no place on a military history site - just has when we were in the service.

I agree with Bob Kendig. So many of our Government officals in the Senate & House of Representatives (all political parties included) have pointed fingers at our President George W. Bush as the one who has caused all of the turmoil that the US is currently faced with. I am so sick and tired of these two-faced officals not taking the blame for their in actions while in office. Each of these individuals needs to be replaced because they have been derelict in their duties. Instead of coming together for the people, by the people and of the people they are in the position for their own good and don`t give a damn about the military personnel. This piss ant Democrat who is running for President has voted against every bill to protect this country and it seems as though the entire Democratic Party is allied with him. These bastards want to sell this country out and/or give it away. What right does Ted Kennedy has to make the outrageous comments when he never accepted responsibility for the death of Mary Jo Kopecnie? What right does John Kerry have to make his outrageous statements when he, and his wife, have turned against the military? i consider Kerry a turncoat and I have heard many of the veterans indicate they are against him. Look at the denigrating comment he has made against the National Guard along with the same attitude of former president Bill Clinton and that floosie Hiliary. I can`t believe this kind of crap is going on in this country. Ladies & gentlemen, veterans & non-veterans you have all lost so much of your freedoms and you will lose more if we allow this situation to continue. Lets do like we have done in California get rid of the slime & liberalism at the polls on voting day. Only we enlightened individuals that have the welfare of our country can pull this off. Please vote the bastards out!!!

Looking for anyone from 666th AC&W Mt Tam,,,Rockville, Iceland or (^$ AEW & C at McClellan. Circa 1955-1958

Hi Guys, I don`t post very often but I have to add a comment about this 911 commission crap. It was those guys, Congress, that cripled the air defense system for years with all the budget cuts. Remember - they told us that the air breathing threat was obsolete. There is no need for all those fighters on alert!GUESS WHAT! You guys have been around the system. What was our readiness posture on 9/11? I think the reaction was pretty good considering the hostiles were commercial airliners. not Bears or Bisons, or anything newer for that fact. The`re looking for someone to blame - they need to blame themselves! There always has been a need for continental air defense. We just got a wake up call. It is time to quit the handouts and defend the country. Just my feeling,