At you the excellent site, a lot of useful info and good design, thank.

Just a note to say `hello` while my membership to Radomes is being processed. Would like to hear from folks stationed at Dry Hill AFS, 655th RADS from `75-`78. Have caught up with Pete Testerman, Joe Dacko, Madeline (Richardson) Lowrance and a few others. Especially looking for Bill Cavotta, Phil Campanella, Fred Whitman and Chris Sharrow. Thanks!

Stationed at North Bend from 1966-1969.

For veterans of the Kindsbach Combat Operations Center (COC), a.k.a. ``the Cave,`` take a look at www.lostplaces.de/kindsbach/index.html/. Enjoy!

04/27/2006 I am updating my original message from 03/20/1999 I was in the U S Air Force from Dec 28, 1950 to Dec 17, 1954. I Started basic training at Lackland AFB and finished basic at Shepherd AFB, Texas. Then to McChord AFB, Keesler AFB, McChord AFB again, I was in an AC7W Sq. at McChord for a short while, 637th AC&W Squadron, Othello, Washington (August 1952 to April 1953, Then to the 1993rd AACS Squadron at K-46, Hoengsong / Wonju, Korea from April,1953 to March, 1954. Finished up at James Connelly AFB, Waco, TX until discharge. Also had some training at Lowry AFB, Spokane, WA.

Still looking for anyone who was stationed at the 799th A.C.& W.,Joelton, TN. We have a great reunion group and if you were stationed there we need you to make the group more complete. Please contact me . Jerry

Once again it`s time for my twice yearly search for anyone who spent some of their `cold war` tour in Germany...specifically at the `cave` located in Kindsbach. If you worked in the 412L system at the cave from 1962-1966, it would be great to hear from you.

Stationed at 780th at Fortuna, ND 60 - 64. Had a lot of ups and downs. Up to the ops area and down to the orderly room. Always remember the first big promotion party and the club. Had a little trouble with the CC that night. Got two more weeks of restriction. What`s that? Crosby and Westby every night. Some really great years. Let me hear from anyone there during that time.

I was assigned to the 603rd AC&W Squadron at Giebelstadt and Langerkopf, Germany from March 1953 to September 1956. Wonderful tour.

Tempelhof, Berlin, Germany 1971-1973. Maintained the FPS-67 search and FPS-90 height-finder radars. I`m looking for a picture of the Farewell Certificate we used to get in 1973 for our tour in Berlin. I believe it had a drawing of the Berlin Wall and mentioned that you are now indoctrinated in the meaning of the Iron Curtain and the Cold War. If you of someone that has this Certificate, please drop me a line. Look forward to hearing from you. Paul

Every one on active duty when Berlin Wall was built in 1961 were extended 1 Year either involuntary or voluntarily you had a choice didn`t make any differance which you chose. Don`t think anyone had to stay extra year but some were close. I only put in an extra 1 month and 20 days. My original discharge date was 4/14/1962 actual date was 6/4/1962

I was at 615acw,Prum.germany when the wall went up.I was extended 1 year in august 1961 with only 90 days to go before discharge.I reenlisted on my orignal dischage date,rotated back to states in feb.1962. New base , key west nas,fla. one hot spot to another!

Trying to locate either Arthur Weisbrodt of Ed Damsky, fellow members of the 616th AC&W squadron, stationed at Ulm Getrmany from 1953 thru 1955 and beyond. or any other veteran having informaion that may help me in locating them. Thank you for taking note of this request and any assistance you may be able to give me.

don`t know if my last message went through or not..anyway.. I was stationed at Fort Fisher North Carolina in 1957 thru 1960 and then shipped out to Murphy Dome, Alaska in 1960 and discharged in 1961..I was a 27350A radar operator..If anyone there at that time please send me an e-mail..thanks Joe Dohmann

Hi Fellas, I,m Canadian, served from 1957 to 1980. Was trained at Keesler on the AN/FST-2/RAPPI also later the BUIC 3 SAGE system, all systems, Later trained on the F-18 Simulator. Retired from 231G . Have many photo`s of Keesler and site pics. Also BUIC 3 course notebooks. Retired as a E9 (20 years in NORAD0 John Lalonde, Sault Ste Marie,Ont-CAN

I too would like to thank Markus for his kind words. During the long cold war (1946-1991) the troops who stood on guard duty for the world were the airmen at all the radar sites along with SAC.s missle`s/aircraft and the Navy`s missle submarines. We did complete our mission.

I was stationed at 760th in Colville, Wa. from Oct 56 to June 57. and at 823rd in Spokane, Wa from June 57 to June 60. Got out of AF and joined the Coast Guard. Retired as an E-8 with 20 years service Jan 1977. Had a great time in Colville and Spokane. Would love to hear from some of you scopdopes. Vernon

Well... I am no American... (Austrian, that is) I never served in any armed forces... And when the Cold War ended I still was in elementary school... (born in the 80s) But all the stuff I have found on the net and all the hundreds of books I read brought the Cold War close to me. Since mankind tends to forget things quite fast, most people don`t remember (or even don`t want to remember) the war that never was. All of you Radar (and missile folks) protected the United States for over forty years, and by doing so you protected most of Europe too. Besides being a vault of information (that this site has proved to be for me) it is a monument, a reminder of all the money, sweat and blood that was spent (on both sides!) during one of the darkest ages ever. `Sic vis pacem, para bellum.` A phrase that was never more true... `Hoping for peace, but preparing for war.` Keep up the good work!

Markus...remember that some of us also served in Europe with our radar equipment and skills.(for me it was Germany 1962-1966) Thank you for your very kind posting.

Nancy: Which site in Iceland and when? I was @ H-1 (Rockville) from mid-64 to mid-65. Jim

I served at the 790th AC&W Radar Squadron in Kirksville, MO from 1965 through 1968, when the site was closed as an AFS and handed over to the FAA.

For Nancy: I don`t exactly understand your resentment of the SAGE system--your complaint could be interpreted several ways. First of all, what was your assigned function in the manual AC&W system? Did you actually work in a SAGE Direction Center? What was your job there? You said that deciding what was a target and what was not was supposed to be your job. This task was a shared one in SAGE: the initial function was accomplished by the `quantizing` of input raw radar, which applied threshold detection to separate potential targets from the random `noise`; then these selected `blips` were aligned to 1/4-mile range blocks; statistical analysis of adjacent quantized radar `blips` then established which groups of blips were probably actual radar `paints` and what their beginning and ending azimuth values were; from these values, the center azimuth was computed; both the center azimuth and range values were forwarded to the Direction Center over phone lines. Up to this point, processing has been by electronics only, with the only human interventions being to map out areas of coverage with lots of clutter or to adjust the sensitivity of the threshold settings; various different receivers could also be gated in in later radars to improve detection sensitivity. Efforts to assure that this process did, in fact, detect small aircraft targets were performed (PEGE flights, etc.), and when properly adjusted, the system was just about as capable of detecting and processing weak targets as a trained operator. When the data reached the Direction Center, it was in digital form and was displayed to human operators (Surveillance Operators) in sequential fashion so that moving aircraft produced a display with a trail, and the operators used a light gun to select such trails and assign track identification to them. More manual activity by the Identification Section matched these tracks to filed flight plans to declare whether the tracks were `friendly` or `unknowns` requiring further activity to determine their nature (usually scrambling interceptors to take a look). Tracks for which interception was ordered were assigned to Weapons Controllers by the Weapons Director. Much of the processing from this point on was handled principally by the SAGE computer. Height information on the aircraft was requested by the appropriate radar site via digital communications and Height Operators at the site manually used height finder scopes to measure the altitude of aircraft to which the radar antennas had been slewed; some minor adjustments were possible to accommodate some inaccuracy of the original positioning. Where did you fit into this scheme? If you are complaining about the initial detection process by the AN/FST-2 units at the radar sites, then I can understand your lack of enthusiasm, but the automated process was faster and really was nearly as good as an operator`s eyes--also, it did not have to take breaks and did not get tired or headaches from the task. At the DC, humans were involved in most of the operations, although they were assisted in their tasks by the computer system. I served as Radar Maintenance Officer in both AC&W and Radron modes at Mt. Hebo AFS, OR, and Cartwright AS, Labrador, and was also a SAGE Computer Maintenance Officer at Adair AFS, OR back in the early 1960s. When Mt. Hebo (689th AC&W) was being transitioned to SAGE operations, the manual Ops people and I often compared the capabilities of the manual surveillance operators and the digital circuitry in use: there were a few instances where a really good operator (rested) was able to just make out a track on the raw radar that did not get processed to the DC, but it was not a common event. The advent of the Frequency Diversity (FD) radar deployments with their very high power and sophisticated receivers (and `chirp`) produced radar blips with very high signal-to-noise ratios and greatly improved the reliability of the digitizing process.

David---A very impressive, 500 word technical explanation of why SAGE was so good. However, I think you might want to cut Nancy a `little slack.` Like all of us, she was merely expressing her fondness for something that `once was.` It is a wonderful human trait. I think I`ll put on my Ground Observer Corps hat, get my binoculars, and go look for some aircraft.

SAGE vs Manual...from a radar maintenaceman`s view: (1)squadron signs changed from ACWRON to RADRON (2)fewer UPA-35`s to work on (3)fewer calls to the darkroom (4) radar`s ok, must be the computer (5) did I mention fewer UPA-35`s to work on? Gee, I must really be getting old, all I can remember from those days is doing some kind of work on big grey boxes (or brown) inside of round buildings, a big round thing on top with something that I had to work on that went round and round or up and down. Later I had to work on grey boxes that were inside a square building and the thing on top went round and round and up and down, backwards, and sideways all at the same time, and felt like an earthquake. That`s probably why us old Fuzzy-7 guys all suffer CRS now. But since newer is better in America and SAGE was newer than Manual, then SAGE must have been better:-)

This past weekend I attended a Dedication Ceremony for a new Veterans Memorial located in Havana, Florida. Havana is a small town 1000 to 1500 people 15 miles north of Tallahassee, Florida There were about 300 people who attended from all Military Services. The memorial has monuments to veterans for all U. S. Wars to current. There is a monument to citizen`s from the town killed in world WarII Korea & Vietnam. A POW/MIA monument. Some interesting things,two Bataan Death March survivors from this town, one still living an Airborne Sargent who was in Normandy Landing and a member of Doolittle Raid on Tokyo also from Havana. The Main speaker was a Retired Marine Lt. General who was at Iwo Jima where he was wounded twice and also served in Korea & Vietnam. The WWII KIA were represented by surviving relatives. My Mother-in-Law`s Brother was one of the KIA. He was Tank Crew member with General Pattons Third Army in France. My Father-in-Law had two cousins from Havana KIA during WWII. My mother had a First cousin not from Havana but a much smaller town Altha, Florida (50 Miles west of Tallahassee)who was on USS Lexington when it was sunk in Battle of the Coral Sea. He was last man to get out of engine room alive. When ordered to abandon ship as he was climbing up ladder to leave engine room an explosion covered all the men following him with hot burning oil. The men ahead of him helped pull him out the hatch. Most of my relatives served in Army or Navy but my Brother & I were in Air Force. The name of the Memorial is: The Price of Freedom Veterans Memorial, Havana Florida

I AGREE with Nancy, never worked Sage but did have a tour, (Battle Creek, Mi.) when at Selfridge, hated the thought of working in a BIG boring block house, worked it all from (manual) Control Center & UNF/DF Net Control Station (ger) AEW at McClellan , AC&W Selfridge, Iceland, (Remote) Montana, & Key West FL. would have cross trained rather then Sage, but ubted to say goodbye USAF went to FAA after working the old way it helped me when I went to FAA (Tower) no regrets!!!

For Nancy...nice to have you aboard. The only thing I`d like to add, or point out concerning the Manual v SAGE discussion that has popped up here is this. After a remote assignment to the 911th, I ended up at the 26th Air Div. Combat Operations Center. Even though it was SAGE, we still had, and used, Manual plotting boards to either side of the main display of activity in the Div. They were used mostly to show the status of all the various Fighter Sqdns/Wings and other weapons including Navy Guns within, or just off shore, in the Div. Although I was an Air Surveillance tech., I also spent time working in the Manual Inputs Early Warning Section. It`s like its name implies. We took raw data from distant sites and manually input it into the computer for display to the Div. Commander and the rest of the Battle Staff. We used dead reckoning, based on the data, to determine when and where they would enter our Div`s airspace. I`m sure we could have found something for you to do at the CC that would have reminded you of the Manual system, LOL. Anyway, we were all one team, you, me, and all the old radar types here at this website. Stop back once in awhile. Whiskey Sierra.

For Nancy, Dave Jeff and all the rest on both sides of the scope. Believe me you all had an important part to play. I arrived in the electronic field late, after ten years as a recprocating aircraft engine mechanic. My first job after leaving the heat and cold and rain and snow and grease and oil and skinned knuckles was tending the AN/FST-2. I was overjoyed to be in a building that was cool and comfortable, even if it was only so because of the equipment. Later I worked inside a mountain in Germany, watching a scope for abnormalities. From there I spent a couple of years with the Radar Eval Squadron at Ramstein, travelling throught Europe to places where the idea was`here they come, there they go`, and I had great respect for those out on the edge. Later I got to work in a windowless place for the AF Special Projects Office at Westover. Nowhere did I come into contact with anyone who was not an advocate for his/her own particular skill and job. I spent thirteen happy years among the scope dopes and Techtronics readers. Nancy, I salute your skills and pride in them. Dave, I needed your expertise on many occasions to understand my own job. Thank God we were all there when we were needed. Best to all. Walt

I have a question for the group. Does anyone know anything of a radar site at Tarpon Springs, FL? When I first moved to Florida I used to fish off of the power plant at Tarpon Springs. At the edge of the water was a large stationary antenna. I looked like an old BMEWS antenna only not as large. It was facing west. I was fishing there today and the antenna is no longer there. There is an old large block house type building that has a large power line run to it and several large A/C vents on the roof. Looks like a military building. The building is located at 28 11` 19.18N, 82 47` 39.28W. From Google Earth you can see the building. The antenna was located due north of the building about 300 to 600 feet.

Served in the 603rd AC&W Sq in Giebelstadt and Langerkopf, Germany from 1953 to 1956. I worked in Supply. Really enjoyed my time on the `Rock` (Langerkopf). Would from old friends I served with.

I was assigned to the 603rd AC&W Squadron in Giebelstadt and Langerkopf, Germany from March 1953 to September 1956.

First assignment(1961) was at the 872 AC&W SQ in Constintina, Sp, then at the 771 AC&W SQ at Cape Charles, VA. Several fun TDY`s to Ft Fischer,SC Independent Hill,VA (Live 3 miles away from the site),Moron,Wiesbaden(SP?), Heidelburg. All in 4 fast years.

Lots of great memories of the challenging DEWLINE missions. I was a C-130 gris qualified navigator flight examiner, and flew many missions from site to site. Always enjoyed that mission, the most challenging navigation in my career. No inertial navigation, tempermental Omega, basically Grid navigation, a doppler computer and two working watches (one for back-up!). Finding a building or two when there are no others for hundreds of miles, many times dealing with weather, not to mention rapidly changing sunrise/sunset times in day ops only runways. Would love to see some photos of some of these sites again. Cape Hooper as I recall (hopefully I am not confusing it with some other ones like it)was the most interesting. 3,010 feet of gravel. You land short, you`re wet, you land long, you`re wet. And lose an engine while full of cargo? Good luck in the fjords. Thanks for any leads on photos if you have any. I loved the mission there, and always enjoyed the people there, what a hospitable, friendly bunch.

Lots of great memories of the challenging DEWLINE missions. I was a C-130 gris qualified navigator flight examiner, and flew many missions from site to site. Always enjoyed that mission, the most challenging navigation in my career. No inertial navigation, tempermental Omega, basically Grid navigation, a doppler computer and two working watches (one for back-up!). Finding a building or two when there are no others for hundreds of miles, many times dealing with weather, not to mention rapidly changing sunrise/sunset times in day ops only runways. Would love to see some photos of some of these sites again. Cape Hooper as I recall (hopefully I am not confusing it with some other ones like it)was the most interesting. 3,010 feet of gravel. You land short, you`re wet, you land long, you`re wet. And lose an engine while full of cargo? Good luck in the fjords. Thanks for any leads on photos if you have any. I loved the mission there, and always enjoyed the people there, what a hospitable, friendly bunch.

Great site!!!!! I was originally assigned to: Hq. & Hq. Btty. (Missile Master), 28th Arty. Gp.(AD), Selfridge AFB,MI Feb.,1962 to Sept., 1963 Later assigned to: Hq. & Hq. Btty. (AADCP 1, aka AN/MSQ-1), 38th Arty. Bgd.(AD), Camp Howard, ROK, (as NCOIC Radar & Antenna Trailers), Oct., 1963 to Jan., 1964. Further assigned to: Hq. & Hq. Btty. (Site 100), 38th Arty. Bgd.(AD), attached to 113th AC&W Sqdrn, USAF, KMAG, Camp Humphreys, ROK (as Crew Chief,`C` crew,). Jan., 1964 to Nov., 1964. Thanks for all the effort to put such a site on the Internet!! Best regards, Tom Norris, Sr. Amateur Radio W8UBC (Nov., 1954 to present) Formerly: Sgt. (SP5 E-5) Carl T. Norris, Sr., Nov., 1961 to Nov., 1964

I was stationed with the 603rd AC&W Squadron in Giebelstadt and Langerkopf, Germany from 1953-1956. Would like to hear from friends I served with.

Looking at the pictures from Kessler 1960 yearbook the one about Basic training in Triangle Area the picture is of street next to Barracks I was housed in. The left side of the picture shows a part of a small roof over side entrance to barracks where my Radar Operator Student flight was housed in 1958. On right side is the parade ground, PT field and a small obstacle course. The barracks on right was where the Radio operator students were housed. The Small building in front of the barracks on the right was Chow hall C Shift night classes had our meals. The Main Runway was across road at end of street. You could see the airpanes taking off or landing from chow hall windows. On Day there was a loud explosion at end of runway. B-57 sitting on runway had big Black cloud of smoke around it. Every one thought it had exploded. Later we found out it was because they were using a Powder charge to start the two engines. one of only two (2) times I saw a B-57. The other was a bubble check during an ORI at Winslow AFB in 1960. At the first intersection of the street in the picture out of the picture across from the parade ground-PT field was the Triangle Rec Hall I belive it was named Vandenberg Hall. Only went there twice while at Kessler

I was with the 29th fighter squadron based at Malstrom AFB from 1964 to 1965 and would like to find a squadron patch. Would you help?

This is a wonderful place. I never knew about it, until someone mentioned that there was a site dedicated to Radar and radar operators. I loved my duty in Iceland on the manual system, but was resentful of SAGE. I didn`t like a computer telling me what was a target and what wasn`t, that was supposed to be MY job.

For Nancy---SAGE was `retired` in 1983. Who could have possibly imagined in the 1960`s that the SAGE computer, with its 55,000 vacuum tubes, would be the forerunner of a world-wide technological revolution that continues to expand. You are also correct about this site being a great place...welcome to the club!!

I was stationed at the 734th AC&W Sq (Site Y3), Morocco from Apr 1959 to Apr 1960. I have established a web site of this Radar Site that has many E-mail, messages, and over 200 photos. If interested you can find it at the following URL address: http://www.geocities.com/site_3_morocco/

ANYONE FROM THE 762ND RADAR SQD,NORTH TRURO AFS, MA, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO WAS STATIONED THERE. I WAS THERE FROM NOV OF 1983 TO DEC OF 1984.

For Jim Luck--Hugh Naylor and I were both Chiefs at the 86th Air Division at Ramstein AFB, Germany during 63-64. Hugh was the Division Radar NCOIC and I was the Division EW/ECCM NCOIC. When Hugh rotated back to the states sometime in late 63 or early 64 (as I recall), he was assigned to Neah Bay. At some time after that, I was reassigned to his old job as the Division Radar NCOIC. I would guess that the `club` job was an additional duty and not a full time job, but he was a 30390. I wasn`t there, so I`m only guessing as to why he was at the club job.

Looking for fellow `scopedopes` who were stationed with the 681st AC&W Squadron at Cut Bank, Montana, from October 1953 to December 1954. Don Woerpel (Baker crew, and later Ops Clerk)

655th AFS Watertown, NY 1955-56, love to hear from old friends

[I received this email this morning, and decided to post it here. If anyone has any old home movies of anywhere on the Pinetree Line, please contact Pierre at pparent@mts.net. - Gene ] Hi Gene, It`s been a long time since I dropped you a line... I e-mailed Larry Wilson and asked him if he knew anyone who may have had some old home movie footage of events on the sites and he can`t think of anything. The reason is that the CTV television network here in Manitoba plans to do a story of the province`s participation in the Cold War and after I got hold of them, they plan to feature `Beausejour` because it still has buildings standing and such. After talking to the producer of the show for most of two hours the other day, he told me that this will be a people type story and he wondered if anyone would have movies and stories of their time in Beausejour or in any of the sites during the early fifties. In researching the project, they`ve come to realize that this story is not one that can be told in a half hour program and they plan for a full hour documentary follow up about Canada`s contribution that may well go National. Another angle I reminded the producer was that there was an American presence in all this and if he includes the idea, you may well get a call from the fellow. So, with your vast contacts from your side of the fence, would you have a look..?? I`m sure they will be returned in good order. I`ll personally guarantee this. Thanks a lot.. As they say, `See you in the Movies` Pierre Parent Gimli Manitoba.

To all veterans of Fort Fisher Air Force Station, North Carolina (701st AC&W Squadron / 701st Radar Squadron / 701st Air Defense Group; and Detachment 5, 14th Missile Warning Squadron): If you are interested in having a site reunion, please contact me. The proposed location is the Fort Fisher Air Force Recreation Area. The proposed date is the weekend of 28-29 June 2008 (note that 30 June 2008 will mark the 20-year anniversary of the site closing). This gives us over two years to plan this thing right. I e-mailed everyone listed in the Site Roster, and so far all replies have been positive. Of course, there are many veterans who are not signed in. Also, quite a few of the notes bounced, indicating out-of-date e-mail addresses. So, please notify other FFAFS veterans with whom you might be in-touch, and ask them to contact me. We are also looking for volunteers to help organize the event. Let`s make this happen! Thanks!! -- Tom